April 17, 2024
Season:    7

System Redesign and Transit Revival in Madison with Justin Stuehrenberg

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Justin Stuehrenberg GM of Madison Metro and his team used COVID as the impetus to finally put a long-planned system redesign into motion and completed it in June 2023. Since then they’ve seen a 15% increase in ridership. Justin and Paul talked about how his new network works, how geography figured into it, and the new bus rapid transit (BRT) lines coming soon that will use battery electric buses charged en route with overhead pantographs.

Also in this episode:

  • Being part of city government–the good and bad
  • Working with multiple city councils for approvals and funding
  • Justin’s path from designing airplane engines to transit engineering and planning.

Coming up next week…

It’s episode 300! Yes, we’re celebrating 300 episodes with the ThinkTransit CEO Roundtable, covering the most pressing issues in transit today with four of the industry’s most influential CEOs.

If you have a question or comment, email us at info@transitunplugged.com.

Transit Unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo and these fine folks:

  • Paul Comfort, host and producer
  • Julie Gates, executive producer
  • Tris Hussey, editor and writer
  • Tatyana Mechkarova, social media

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00:00 Welcome to Transit Unplugged

00:15 Introducing Justin Stuenberg and Madison Metro Transit

01:38 Madison’s Unique Transit Challenges and Solutions

05:13 Funding and Operational Structure of Madison Metro

07:03 Revolutionizing Transit: Bus Network Redesign and BRT Implementation

18:15 Looking Ahead: Future Projects and Personal Insights

21:43 Coming up next week on Transit Unplugged

Transcript
Paul Comfort:

This is Transit Unplugged.

Paul Comfort:

I'm Paul Comfort, good to be with you on another edition of the

Paul Comfort:

world's leading transit executive podcast, Transit Unplugged.

Paul Comfort:

Heard now in over a hundred countries around the world.

Paul Comfort:

On today's episode, our guest is Justin Stuehrenburg, who is General

Paul Comfort:

Manager of the Madison Metro Transit System in Madison, Wisconsin, the

Paul Comfort:

capital of the state of Wisconsin.

Paul Comfort:

This is a large and growing system with about 200 fixed route buses, and they

Paul Comfort:

are coming back strong after the pandemic with ridership now up to 90 percent

Paul Comfort:

of the levels it was back in 2019.

Paul Comfort:

And today, Justin takes us on a deep dive into, the reasons behind

Paul Comfort:

their complete bus network redesign and the impact of it that's been

Paul Comfort:

underway for about nine months.

Paul Comfort:

We talk about their new 200 million bus rapid transit program and how they're

Paul Comfort:

implementing it, how they're doing electric buses with overhead wires to

Paul Comfort:

charge them at the end of the lines and all kinds of interesting in depth.

Paul Comfort:

Plus a look at a degree he got that I was fascinated by, his master's degree,

Paul Comfort:

and how that's helped prepare him.

Paul Comfort:

for the job he has today.

Paul Comfort:

All that on this episode of Transit Unplugged.

Paul Comfort:

Now join us in conversation with Justin Stuehrenburg All

Paul Comfort:

Justin, great to have you with us today on the Transit Unplugged podcast.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

great to be here.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Appreciate it.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Yeah,

Paul Comfort:

yeah, absolutely.

Paul Comfort:

Thanks for, sharing with me some of the great stories today.

Paul Comfort:

I think we're going to have some great stories about how your system is really

Paul Comfort:

coming back strong and proactively planning for the growth of your city.

Paul Comfort:

I think that's a great position to be in, man.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Yeah, we're really excited to move transit forward here

Justin Stuehrenberg:

in Madison and, we've got a lot of, a lot of things working in our favor.

Paul Comfort:

Absolutely.

Paul Comfort:

So Madison, Wisconsin, tell us a little bit about your city

Paul Comfort:

and, and your operation there.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Sure.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

so we are, we're actually a city department.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

We're not a regional transit authority.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So we're operating under the umbrella of the City of Madison,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

but we operate regional service.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

We are the regional service provider in, in the entire region.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So we have, contracts with, all of our surrounding cities as well as

Justin Stuehrenberg:

the University of Wisconsin and other private entities to provide service.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Madison is a unique place, headquarters, of some major, companies like Epic

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Systems, as well as the state capitol and the home for University of Wisconsin.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

we're also, sandwiched between two lakes, and so we are, built on an

Justin Stuehrenberg:

isthmus, which really, constraints our geography, but really makes

Justin Stuehrenberg:

it a very beautiful place to be.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and so, and a lot of that, works to our advantage from a transit perspective.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So, we, famously have no, highways going through the core of our city.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and so That's unusual.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Yeah.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

but so it, it, it's a really very good market for transit.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and it shows up in our ridership.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So we're actually, one of the highest ridership per capita,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

agencies in the country.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

I believe we're top 5%, in the country in terms of ridership per capita.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So

Paul Comfort:

that's great.

Paul Comfort:

So tell us about, the services that you operate, the types of services, et cetera.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Sure.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

right now we, are all, local bus and paratransit.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

we, and we directly operate, the fixed route service, and

Justin Stuehrenberg:

contract our paratransit.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

we are under construction right now for our first bus rapid transit

Justin Stuehrenberg:

line, and that will be coming online later this year, fall of 2024.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

it's a high quality BRT project with, About 70 percent dedicated lanes.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

It's about a 200 million project, that I think will really take us, the next

Justin Stuehrenberg:

step, in terms of providing really quality service through the city.

Paul Comfort:

So you've got a hundred and, almost 200 buses, right?

Paul Comfort:

240 foot buses.

Paul Comfort:

your ridership is coming back strong from your kind of pre pandemic levels, right?

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Uh, yeah, and so actually we just

Justin Stuehrenberg:

got our February ridership.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

We were over a million rides for February, again, for the first

Justin Stuehrenberg:

time since COVID, and so we are now at about 90 percent ridership

Justin Stuehrenberg:

recovery, since before the pandemic.

Paul Comfort:

And a little bit more about the place of Madison, being that it's a

Paul Comfort:

state capital, et cetera, but also, I find it interesting that, your population is

Paul Comfort:

growing, but it's not growing out into the suburbs as much as a lot of other, cities

Paul Comfort:

might be, maybe because of geography that you mentioned, but instead, the

Paul Comfort:

downtown area is growing, where people, you know, live within the city limits,

Paul Comfort:

the, you're at 400, 000, which is a pretty big, these days, for a downtown area.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

yeah, you're exactly right.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

We, the city has really prioritized growing up, not out, there

Justin Stuehrenberg:

certainly is some outward growth in some of our suburban neighbors,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

but they are also focusing on trying to densify and infill too.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So, it, it's really a, a strong market for transit service.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

you know, we're not, Trying to chase new developments out into

Justin Stuehrenberg:

the cornfields we're really able to leverage our existing service to

Justin Stuehrenberg:

serve new developments coming in.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

that's been, I think, a huge benefit for us.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

And I think, we are 1 of the fastest growing regions

Justin Stuehrenberg:

kind of outside the sunbelt.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

but again, what makes us different than, you know, Des Moines, for

Justin Stuehrenberg:

example, who is also growing pretty dramatically is that our birth is

Justin Stuehrenberg:

happening in the downtown core.

Paul Comfort:

Yeah.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and, and that, that again makes a

Justin Stuehrenberg:

very strong case for transit.

Paul Comfort:

So you've got, in kind of being proactive in planning

Paul Comfort:

for the future, you've got a bunch of major projects coming up.

Paul Comfort:

You mentioned the BRT, we're gonna talk about your complete bus network

Paul Comfort:

design in just a minute, your new facilities, new technology.

Paul Comfort:

Justin, I got a question for you.

Paul Comfort:

Where are you getting all the funds for this?

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Well, we've been very fortunate to have a strong partnership

Justin Stuehrenberg:

with the FTA and been successful in a lot of our grant opportunities.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

And we've got very strong support locally.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

we've got a lot of support locally.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

being very high, it's, it's very, it's a high priority for our city government,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and for our surrounding cities, and so they've been, willing to contribute

Justin Stuehrenberg:

funds, to make these projects happen, but again, you know, usually only 20

Justin Stuehrenberg:

percent because we've been able to, to successfully create projects that

Justin Stuehrenberg:

are very appealing, to federal funding opportunities and, and meet a lot

Justin Stuehrenberg:

of the scoring criteria very well.

Paul Comfort:

And how are you funded, for operating dollars, not capital?

Paul Comfort:

Is it, do you have a dedicated tax?

Paul Comfort:

Is it just an annual allocation from the City Council, or?

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Yeah, so it, and that's another part that is challenging.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

you know, again, we are, a city government with no dedicated

Justin Stuehrenberg:

tax, operating regional service.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

And so, right now, it is just a direct appropriation from each

Justin Stuehrenberg:

individual partner city, to fund our budget, and that, is what we do.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Can fluctuate from year to year and, and there really is

Justin Stuehrenberg:

no dedicated pool for growing.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and so that makes it very difficult, especially in a growing region.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

we really have to manage those relationships and those forecasts and,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

try to be creative in the way that we are growing, so that we can continue to, to

Justin Stuehrenberg:

put each city in a position for success.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

ultimately that means that, I.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Report to six different city councils, which, is sometimes challenging,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

often challenging, but, you know, it's, it's the, the hand we've been

Justin Stuehrenberg:

dealt here and we're trying to, to be successful and to move forward.

Paul Comfort:

And, operationally, who do you report to?

Paul Comfort:

day to day,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

the city of Madison mayor, and then we have

Justin Stuehrenberg:

a transportation, commission that

Paul Comfort:

kind of

Justin Stuehrenberg:

handles the, the function of the city council.

Paul Comfort:

All right.

Paul Comfort:

So let's jump into your projects you've got coming up.

Paul Comfort:

first off, you know, back in 2017, when I was in Baltimore, I left just

Paul Comfort:

before the implementation of it, but we did a total bus network redesign based

Paul Comfort:

on Tom Lambert's Houston Model, where basically we analyzed where people wanted

Paul Comfort:

to go today, because in 2017, it was different than it was 50 years before,

Paul Comfort:

and unfortunately, our route system was laid out 50 years before, like a lot

Paul Comfort:

of cities were, you know, they kind of follow the old streetcars, where two

Paul Comfort:

thirds of the route went to the central business district, and that wasn't, that

Paul Comfort:

wasn't The need of passengers anymore and no one had ever kind of ripped the

Paul Comfort:

band aid off and said, okay, we gotta, we gotta totally rehab this thing and

Paul Comfort:

take people where they want to go today.

Paul Comfort:

Is that kind of what you did post COVID?

Paul Comfort:

You decided, look, this, we have new travel patterns, hybrid work schedules,

Paul Comfort:

three day city, all that stuff.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Yeah.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So, we implemented our redesign last summer, summer of 23.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and there was really, there was a need for it even before Covid.

Paul Comfort:

yes.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

we had actually, it, it had been kinda on the books,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

from a planning standpoint, before that.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

but.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

COVID is what really allowed us to move it forward, more quickly.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Madison was a little bit different than I think most, most cities in

Justin Stuehrenberg:

terms of, we had actually done a major service redesign in the mid 90s.

Paul Comfort:

Okay.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and so we weren't kind of dealing with.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

That is different.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

The true legacy, you know, right?

Justin Stuehrenberg:

The streetcar lines just turned into bus routes and that's

Justin Stuehrenberg:

the way it's always been.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

we, in the 90s, implemented, like a transfer point system.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So, basically there were four transfer points were created in what was at the

Justin Stuehrenberg:

time roughly the periphery of the city.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and there were routes that went between the transfer points and then

Justin Stuehrenberg:

there were routes that kind of did one way loops through neighborhoods away

Justin Stuehrenberg:

from the transit point or transfer points to create that connectivity.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

That, was starting to falter, for two major reasons.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

One is our city was growing so much that you know, at the time they were built,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

they were nearly at the periphery, well, since then, a huge amount of city has

Justin Stuehrenberg:

been developed outside of them, which basically means that everyone outside

Justin Stuehrenberg:

of them had to go through unnecessary transfers and out of direction travel

Justin Stuehrenberg:

to get to where they wanted to be.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

we actually found that people at the periphery of the city had

Justin Stuehrenberg:

transferred at three times the rate.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

of people elsewhere in the city, and it just so happens that in Madison, much of

Justin Stuehrenberg:

our low income community and people of color, have been pushed to the outskirts

Justin Stuehrenberg:

of the city, and so they were being disproportionately impacted by that system

Justin Stuehrenberg:

. and then the other, element was, by having transfer points at both ends of the, kind

Justin Stuehrenberg:

of, downtown bisecting routes, we, we had time transfers at both ends of routes.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

which operationally we just couldn't sustain, as, you know, the city got,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

grew up and traffic got worse, you know, those routes were more and more delayed,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and, ultimately what was designed to have a bus arrive every 30 minutes and

Justin Stuehrenberg:

everyone make a transfer and, and go along their way, meant that buses were

Justin Stuehrenberg:

often 6 or 7 minutes late and, and then everyone missed their transfer and were

Justin Stuehrenberg:

sitting around for 30 minutes and stuff.

Paul Comfort:

That's no good.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Yeah.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

so those, those two things were what really drove, the change

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and then COVID was just, was the opportunity to get it done.

Paul Comfort:

So what's the new design?

Justin Stuehrenberg:

so it's a bit more, so I know Houston and most cities have

Justin Stuehrenberg:

tried to go more towards the grid model, where, we're focusing on transfers,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

with high frequency grid routes.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

with our geography, we just can't do that.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

There is no grid.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Okay.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

And so we had to go kind of a more robust radial type.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

system.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

but again, trying to improve frequency, headways as much as possible, make bus

Justin Stuehrenberg:

routes, make the routes go in straight lines as much as possible, and enable

Justin Stuehrenberg:

those transfers where the opportunities were given, but, but not basing our entire

Justin Stuehrenberg:

network off people making transfers.

Paul Comfort:

Really good, kind of self awareness of your

Paul Comfort:

geography and your system.

Paul Comfort:

Proof of the old adage that if you've seen one transit system,

Paul Comfort:

you've seen one transit system.

Paul Comfort:

Because everyone is different.

Paul Comfort:

Now tell us the results.

Paul Comfort:

I think you've had some fantastic results as it relates to ridership

Paul Comfort:

and reduced transfers, spreading the load, not the crush load.

Paul Comfort:

Go through all that with us.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

we implemented in June of 2023, so we're about 9

Justin Stuehrenberg:

months in or so, and so far we've, most months, seen at least a 15 percent jump,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

since then, so I think In ridership.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Yeah, in ridership, and so, still fairly early, but, all signs are

Justin Stuehrenberg:

pointing in the right direction.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

That's promising,

Paul Comfort:

yeah.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Yeah, but I think one of the things that's, that's

Justin Stuehrenberg:

especially unique about it is that we've seen a big drop in transfer activity.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So while unlinked trips are down or are up 15 percent and we've we've actually

Justin Stuehrenberg:

seen like paid boardings go up almost 30%.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

And so, again, it's very difficult for us to parse the data out, but, we

Justin Stuehrenberg:

feel that the actual increase in the number of people using our system,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

not just number of unlinked boardings.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

is more in the range of 30%.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So, yeah, a huge benefit, huge increase.

Paul Comfort:

Yeah, and the service has kind of been spread out.

Paul Comfort:

You don't have those heavy peaks where there's no room for anybody on

Paul Comfort:

the bus and people are left standing.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Yeah, so our old system was, was very much

Justin Stuehrenberg:

designed around the 9 to 5 commuter.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

And so we have spread that out a little bit, to, to reflect again, some of the

Justin Stuehrenberg:

COVID, the changes in COVID in terms of.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

work from home as well as, you know, more 24 hour shifts, that service

Justin Stuehrenberg:

workers and, and others, are doing.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and so, we have spread that, that peak across the day a bit more, So

Justin Stuehrenberg:

we've seen ridership in the midday and weekends, significantly, passed

Justin Stuehrenberg:

higher than our pre COVID numbers.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

but the peaks, still are a little bit lower.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

One of the things that I think is, as you kind of alluded to, is that

Justin Stuehrenberg:

our . our ridership is so strong that we often have issues with capacity,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and, and overloads and pass bys.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and, and those are challenges that we're continuing to mitigate.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

it's not one that the, the redesign, solved, but it, it's helped.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and, and our.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Bus Rapid Transit will help even more as we implement 60 foot buses.

Paul Comfort:

So.

Paul Comfort:

Let's talk about that.

Paul Comfort:

What, what convinced you that you needed a BRT?

Paul Comfort:

It seems like the last six interviews I've done with CEOs

Paul Comfort:

are all talking about their BRT.

Paul Comfort:

You know, some of them have one route, like our, our latest two television

Paul Comfort:

shows in, Tulsa and in Kansas City, they're both all about the next BRT line.

Paul Comfort:

What convinced you you needed to get into that, into that

Paul Comfort:

world of Bus Rapid Transit?

Justin Stuehrenberg:

I think our, our high ridership demand and our very

Justin Stuehrenberg:

linear nature of the, of the city, just make us a perfect candidate for that.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

And, and we, I think that shows in some of the scoring criteria

Justin Stuehrenberg:

of our grant applications, but, you know, we are very much.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Arranged in a straight line.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and, so our BRT will actually, it, it'll kind of almost be three

Justin Stuehrenberg:

routes overlapping on each other.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

And we'll actually have five minute headways in the core of the city.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Wow.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Five minutes.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

That's good with, with 60 foot buses.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So, it'll be, it, it will really provide that spine of capacity

Justin Stuehrenberg:

that we desperately need.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

because right now we're just throwing extra buses out there on a regular

Justin Stuehrenberg:

basis just to absorb the demand.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and that's, that's a challenge for operationally.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and it's not really, it's not intuitive or useful for passengers other than

Justin Stuehrenberg:

just being able to get on the bus.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So,

Paul Comfort:

and you're, because you're a city department, you've been able to

Paul Comfort:

get What, 70 percent did you mention?

Paul Comfort:

Dedicated lanes, center platform stations, level boarding, TSP, the whole, the

Paul Comfort:

whole, cornucopia of, prizes that are coming your way to do a real BRT, man.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Yep.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

And, and, I do think it's going to be a national model.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and yeah, that's one place we're being a city department.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

has made things easier.

Paul Comfort:

Yes.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

In most situations, it's made it more difficult, but in that

Justin Stuehrenberg:

particular case, it's actually been a lot easier to implement as a city department.

Paul Comfort:

So a little bit more about it.

Paul Comfort:

did I understand you're doing electric buses with overhead charging on route?

Paul Comfort:

Tell me about that.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

we'll actually be, again, we've kind of structured

Justin Stuehrenberg:

it as three separate lines all overlapping with each other.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and because of the length of those lines, because we're a radial type network.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

the, the system, it's about 16 miles long, and in the main section of line,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

but we're actually buying 46 of these 60 foot electric buses, as part of the

Justin Stuehrenberg:

project, and they will be charged, at the layover points at the end of the

Justin Stuehrenberg:

line, where we're actually building park and rides and off street facilities.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

where it will have overhead, pantograph chargers, and, restroom facility for

Justin Stuehrenberg:

drivers, and, and just be an overall, quality place to wait, off street.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So, we, and we've built in a lot of duplication and redundancy

Justin Stuehrenberg:

in that charging system.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

so for example, we have two chargers at each end of the line, whereas

Justin Stuehrenberg:

in reality, we really only probably needed one charger at one end.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

but again, we wanted to build in a lot of that redundancy, just in case there

Justin Stuehrenberg:

was an issue with, with a charger, with a power grid, with anything else.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

we're actually on four chargers on three different power utility companies.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So, we built in a lot of protections there.

Paul Comfort:

Yeah, that's interesting, Justin.

Paul Comfort:

And, when do you anticipate, like, What's the timeline for the BRT?

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So we're under construction now.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

we expect construction to wrap this summer and then we go into operation this fall.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Wow, that's awesome.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

exact timeline is still TBD.

Paul Comfort:

Well, let me know.

Paul Comfort:

We'd love to get up there and film that and all that stuff, maybe

Paul Comfort:

for a future show on the TV show.

Paul Comfort:

That'd be awesome.

Paul Comfort:

One other interesting tidbit about this that I wanted you to share was

Paul Comfort:

how, what your payment options are going to be for fare collection.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So, I know most BRT lines use a proof of

Justin Stuehrenberg:

payment system with fare inspection, kind of no barrier boarding.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

our system was being designed, in, you know, 2020, 2021.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

There was a lot of concern, around profiling, especially racial profiling

Justin Stuehrenberg:

of the fare inspectors, which I know has been at least a concern,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

if not a reality, in other cities.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and we also have a bit of a unique arrangement with the University of

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Wisconsin where they, where they pay for their students and staff

Justin Stuehrenberg:

on a per ride basis, rather than just kind of a, a flat lump sum.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

And so we knew that we needed to accurately track each of those

Justin Stuehrenberg:

individual boardings because typically somebody with an unlimited ride

Justin Stuehrenberg:

monthly pass, they don't tap their card at a station for proof of payment.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

those two things kind of coming together, we ultimately decided to go with, With

Justin Stuehrenberg:

not doing proof of payment, instead you, you will tap your card to board on

Justin Stuehrenberg:

the, as you board the bus, but we will have all door boarding, and so there

Justin Stuehrenberg:

will be a fare validator at each of the doors, so 60 foot buses, 3 doors,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and, people will be able to board any door, tap their card as they board.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

And we've actually kind of built into the system.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Camera views for the, the bus operator so that they have a very clear view

Justin Stuehrenberg:

in their dashboard of the boarding activity at the middle and rear door.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and so that they, they have some ability to monitor that, you know,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

ultimately we, we won't tell them to stop the bus and make somebody pay.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

We will ask them to remind people, but, but ultimately, it will be the

Justin Stuehrenberg:

driver that will be enforcing things.

Paul Comfort:

Gotcha.

Paul Comfort:

So do you have a police force or do you have an agreement with your local police

Paul Comfort:

force to monitor for safety and security?

Justin Stuehrenberg:

We do not have our own police force.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

we do have a contract with the city police department, to, to provide, you

Justin Stuehrenberg:

know, whatever services we might need.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and again, that's another place where being a part of the city is helpful,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

as we can share camera footage fairly easily with them and, fortunately, we, we

Justin Stuehrenberg:

haven't had to, to use that a whole lot.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and that's been helpful.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

But But yes, we don't have our own.

Paul Comfort:

Let's quickly go through a couple other items in our remaining time.

Paul Comfort:

I'd wanted you to walk us through your plans for new

Paul Comfort:

facilities and new technology.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Yeah.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

we are currently a one facility operation.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

we're in a building that was built for 160 buses.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

And as I mentioned, we have about 200.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and so, we've outgrown our space, And we have grown it for a long time.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

And so, we're in the process, we've purchased a new facility, and we're

Justin Stuehrenberg:

in the process of renovating that.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

that will become online this summer as well.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and so we'll go to a two facility operation at that point.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and then, that will give us the opportunity to, To grow as well

Justin Stuehrenberg:

as again, as we continue to grow the system, we needed that space.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

And so that's important.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

But our main facility is also was built in the early 80s and basically

Justin Stuehrenberg:

untouched until about 3 or 4 years ago.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

And so we are in the.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

process of renovating that to bring it to more modern standards as well.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So we've completed three, three phases and our fourth phase and

Justin Stuehrenberg:

final is planned for next year.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So excited to bring that to fruition.

Paul Comfort:

Yeah.

Paul Comfort:

Do you have the BRT buses already or are they coming in over the

Paul Comfort:

summer or what's the game plan?

Justin Stuehrenberg:

they're coming in.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

We have, I believe at last check, about 20 of them in house, but they're

Justin Stuehrenberg:

coming in three a week roughly.

Paul Comfort:

So you're really setting yourself up, I think, for a successful

Paul Comfort:

future, Justin, but I want to, in our remaining few moments, I want to jump

Paul Comfort:

to your past, because I found, your career path very interesting, and

Paul Comfort:

particularly the master's degree you got.

Paul Comfort:

A lot of times, people in this industry fall into it.

Paul Comfort:

They don't plan for it.

Paul Comfort:

but you had a very interesting career path and you got an

Paul Comfort:

interesting master's degree.

Paul Comfort:

I was wondering if you could tell us some about that.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Sure.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

so yeah, my, my undergrad was, was actually mechanical engineering.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and I did not go into transit immediately.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So, I grew up in a small farm community, had never ridden a

Justin Stuehrenberg:

bus until I went to college.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and, I got there and, was in Champaign Urbana, and was riding on buses for

Justin Stuehrenberg:

the first time, they were 20 years old, and they had holes in them, and,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and, we were cra all crammed in there like sardines, and, whereas most people

Justin Stuehrenberg:

would have thought it was terrible, I was, I was amazed at the efficiency of

Justin Stuehrenberg:

it all, and, and how to move that many people that efficiently, and so, I kind

Justin Stuehrenberg:

of, fell in love with it at that point.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

but I, I continued my career, and got my degree and started

Justin Stuehrenberg:

working in the aircraft industry.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

I was ultimately designing aircraft engines for Rolls Royce, but decided

Justin Stuehrenberg:

that that wasn't the path I wanted to go.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

And transit had already been in the back of my mind for a while, and

Justin Stuehrenberg:

so I decided to pursue a master's degree in transportation systems

Justin Stuehrenberg:

analysis, basically a hybrid of transportation engineering and planning.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

And, you know, it's still not a transit specific degree, but it's

Justin Stuehrenberg:

about as close as you can get.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and so, it really, I think, positioned me well for success.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and then, and then I undertook the challenge of basically starting over

Justin Stuehrenberg:

in a new career field, and, and was fortunate to, to land a, a role,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and I've moved my way up since then.

Paul Comfort:

And you took that degree at the University of

Paul Comfort:

South Florida, Cutter, right?

Paul Comfort:

The Center for Urban Transportation Research.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Yep, that's right.

Paul Comfort:

That's a great school.

Paul Comfort:

I have friends that work there.

Paul Comfort:

It's a really good background for exactly what you just did.

Paul Comfort:

Reboot your whole system and plan for the future.

Paul Comfort:

Yeah.

Paul Comfort:

So I think having those fundamentals, that background is, is very useful.

Paul Comfort:

Justin, we wish you the very best as you continue to grow your

Paul Comfort:

system, to meet the challenges of the future and really modernize it.

Paul Comfort:

Any last words you'd like to share?

Justin Stuehrenberg:

no, just, I want to say thank you again.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

And, thanks for giving me the opportunity to highlight Madison and, and yeah,

Justin Stuehrenberg:

I look forward to, to talking with you more as we continue to roll

Justin Stuehrenberg:

out these, these major projects.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Thank you.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

. Tris Hussey: This is Tris Hussey editor of the Transit Unplugged podcast.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Thanks for listening to this week's episode with our special guests, Justin

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Stuehrenberg of Madison Metro transit.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Now coming up next week.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

It's a pretty special episode.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

It's episode 300.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Yes.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

We've had 300 episodes.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Over now are seven seasons of Transit Unplugged.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

And to celebrate.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

We have a special CEO round table recorded at ThinkTransit in Tucson, Arizona.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

This is a really great interview.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Where you get some inside perspectives and what it's like to be a transit CEO.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Speaking of sharing perspectives.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Do you know someone who might like Transit Unplugged?

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Shared with them and they can get all the career advice and insight

Justin Stuehrenberg:

into transit that you get every week.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Transit Unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

At Modaxo, we're passionate about moving the world's people

Justin Stuehrenberg:

and the Transit Unplugged.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

We're passionate about telling those stories.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

So until next week and episode 300.

Justin Stuehrenberg:

Ride safe and ride happy.